Property AI Report 086 - Zoopla Packages, Apple Sues ChatGPT & Elon's on the Purge

Main Topics

• Zoopla’s new membership packages and industry chatter
• Market reaction to Renters’ Rights Act and its financial impact
• Honorary degrees awarded to PropTech founders
• Google's Gemini AI: speculation, progress, and recent rebuild
• The ongoing AI hardware and security controversies involving OpenAI, Apple, and SpaceX
• The rise of Chinese open-source models like KimiK3 and their global implications
• Weird AI of the Week: AI-powered driverless golf carts and miniature electric cars

In this episode:

• Zoopla's fresh approach to SME estate agents and the industry's guesswork
• How Renters' Rights Act is challenging London and national agencies' revenue models
• Celebrating achievements of PropTech pioneers Ben Ridgeway and Jamie Cook
• The behind-the-scenes of Google Gemini's secretive rebuild and anticipated release
• The Apple-OpenAI lawsuit fallout and security risks with AI developer data
• SpaceX’s space foray with Grok and its privacy concerns
• The significance of Chinese open-source models breaking into Western markets
• Quirky AI vehicles designed for the future of autonomous transport

Timestamps:

00:00 - Introduction to this week's property and AI news overview 

01:00 - Zoopla launches new SME-focused membership packages 

01:19 - Industry whispers and the future of Zoopla's business strategy 

03:54 - Impact of the Renters’ Rights Act on agency revenues and market sectors 

05:40 - London-specific challenges and revenue shifts in property management 

07:42 - PropTech founders Ben Ridgeway and Jamie Cook receive honorary degrees 

08:56 - Google Gemini's latest developments, rebuilds, and market position 

09:23 - The rivalry between Google, OpenAI, and Meta in AI model advancements 

12:10 - Apple’s lawsuit against OpenAI and its security backlash 

13:21 - Confidential leaks, security lapses, and the implications for IPOs 

16:44 - Chinese open-source models: KimiK3's breakthrough and global reach 

19:32 - European defense AI investments and strategic moves 

21:23 - Weird AI of the Week: Autonomous, AI-first electric vehicles 

23:08 - Tool of the week: KimiK3 — China's frontier open-source model 

25:23 - Closing thoughts on international AI races and market restrictions

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hi everybody and welcome to the Property AI Report. This is your weekly digest of all things property and AI, brought to you by me, Mal McCannion, and my good friend and co-host Matt Goddard. Matt, how are you today? Great Mal.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

How's your week been?

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Been great. I've seen you twice. So you know, that makes it um an exciting today, isn't it? Of course. Indeed, indeed. Um yeah, no, so it's been uh been really busy. What about yours? Good?

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Very similar. A couple of days in London and then up into Manchester for estate agents at tomorrow event, uh, which is good fun. I'm now back in London again. Excellent.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Well, listen, um we've got a lot to cram in this morning and not a lot of time to do it. So uh let us crack on with our property news. Alright, so first up, I uh wanted to focus on Zupla. So Zupla has announced new membership packages um this week. It says um that it is using them to um attract more SME, small, medium enterprise estate agents. Um, there's a variety of different um offers on the table and with with a variety of different names as well. So listing, instruction, and complete, and then there's like I think different grades of the complete, so there's complete max and various other things. Interesting that they've chosen to kind of do this revamp, and obviously there's been a lot of a lot of kind of uh industry whispers behind the scenes about what's happening with Zuper, where it's going, and so on. Um, what's your take, Matt?

SPEAKER_00 1:11

As you say, the whispers are ongoing, aren't they? But nothing's actually happened with the the transaction, has it, as far as I'm aware. I was at the event yesterday and Alto.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

With the alleged purchase.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Yes, that thing. Alto was there yesterday, and again, we know that it's been split off into three separate, sort of almost trading entities, but whether or not something's kicking on or it's business as usual, but I've never actually considered it, and it's probably slightly embarrassing on my part that there's sort of small mis business enterprise offerings other than the price point that we regularly talk about when we discuss the portals, right? Which is um big agencies aren't paying very much at all, and little agents are getting absolutely hammers. Allegedly.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

So, I mean, it's yeah, allegedly. So, yeah, no, I think it's I think it is interesting. I think, you know, again, kind of pointing directly at um your target audience, it makes sense. Um, you know, that they're quite they're quite coy about like actually how much it's going to be. And you know, touring around the country, talking to various agents, you know, there's there's worldly different uh fluctuations in terms of what they are paying to um obviously right move, but then also Zuppla and on the market. But yeah, I I do think it kind of speaks to something of the new reality that essentially, you know, people are starting to discover properties in different ways. Um, you know, as the the number two player, um, although Coastar would probably say they're number two now, then you've got you know that they're under a lot of pressure, I think. You know, there is still, as you say, this kind of rumour mill about um whether it's um or when it's going to get sold to to other parties or a silver lake holding out for a price that uh that no one's willing to no one's willing to pay. Um but yes, in the meantime, they uh they they're doing a reasonable fist of of business as usual by by the looks of things. But uh but yes, in terms of what people are paying for, you know, it is a it it's some eyeballs. I I don't know if as part of the complete max or the complete um other thing that they uh that they shared specifics about you know how many leads people can expect and all that sort of stuff. But yes, it does feel like um there's uh there's a certain level of relaunch going on here as if they've got to kind of try and attract people's attention again because I think it has been quite a while since anything truly kind of impactful has happened uh from that business as well. Um so yeah, look, I I yeah, I I I I've I would be interested as I continue to talk to agents to find out what their thoughts are on the the various packages, etc. But but yeah, it's just um I don't think we've seen anybody launch um any slightly tweaked packages in a long old time. So it's interesting to see that kind of come and play through. Um all right, next up on our property news, um, we've got the Renters Rights Act um hits three million of Foxton's revenue. Obviously, Matt, um your old crew uh seems like they've taken a bit of a hit, um, and also their share price is just quite down as well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

It is, and I I don't think this really should be a surprise, right? Because there's a number of factors coming into the Renters Rights Act. There's the the landlords exiting the market, and you know, your your portfolio size is potentially going that way. There's the the rafters section 13s that we saw just before it all kicked in, and then as a big part of it, and I think this is more of a London piece than maybe a national, and I say that maybe slightly informed from functionality that we built inside RePIT and sort of garnering the feedback from from clients across the the UK was renewals in London is a big um you know centre, profit centre for businesses. It's you know for us at Fox's it was in the top ten offices comparing it against like the front offices in terms of the the revenue they were making, and suddenly not to have those renewals coming through um and no need to have like a rent review team, that's gonna be a big impact on on what you're looking at as well. So that's sort of quite a heavy mix. And when you think about what happened in with the tenant fee ban back in 2019, you know, some companies were looking at three, four million uh worth of revenue every year that suddenly disappeared, and you might argue rents increased off the back of that, but there's still a lag, wasn't there? And the other part with with London agents is you're looking at how letting fees are structured. So you you look at in London, letting fees are normally upfront, big chunk, and then only management's recurring outside of London, it's more on a monthly drip basis. So all those businesses are gonna have to re-gear the way that those revenues sort of apportioned and structured. And I think the other point that's made in the article is that students are suddenly able to sort of serve notice and disappear off for the summer, whereas previously it might have been that their contracts allowed them to or sort of force them to stay there until the end of August, right? So there's a flacker of impacts there that are gonna absolutely hit you, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Yeah, and and do you think this is a kind of failure of of sort of expectation management, you know, because it's quite a big chunk to kind of take a hit on your share price. So it doesn't seem like the market was was sort of expecting this. And yeah, maybe this is kind of the first of the big reports, you know, the big companies that has to kind of reveal all this sort of stuff, but it doesn't sound like it was kind of expected to be at this level, though, right? Because otherwise perhaps they would have just warmed the market up a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

I uh I don't know. I think there are some elements of it. Maybe the expectation management is more based around some because we really didn't know, like it was still going through Parliament right until the end. I know one or two agencies went really early doors, but it's sort of like you still wait and see what the absolute final legislation was before things came through. Um and maybe you know, if you're a sort of soothsayer, you'd you would you look back and say, okay, in 2007 when the deposits kicked in, here's all the things that we learned. But even then, and I know I've banged on about this before, but we were we were announcing things in April 2007, so right, what this is the way we're gonna approach it, but actually the legislation hadn't been set at that point, even though it was being enacted. So it's like you you sort of reverse engineering some of these things, and London, as we know, does trade slightly differently to the rest of the UK, so you sort of got got that element to it too. But yeah, it is a big old fee, and how do you how do you warm them up in advance? It's maybe 18 months ago saying there's some big stuff coming, and um, apart from going it extreme and saying all our lettings revenue is gonna go, how do you put a finger in just put your finger in the air and try to work it out?

SPEAKER_01 7:08

Yeah, it may not have the uh the designed effect either. No, first out. Um, so next up in our property news, some old prop tech founders um have been awarded honorary degrees. So just wanted to hat tip to uh Ben Ridgway and Jamie Cook, um, who set up um I Am Sold way back in the day, uh 2009, it turns out, and uh have been awarded honorary degrees by Northumbria University, which was um I think where they both went and where they met as well, wasn't it? So um so yeah, that's it's nice to nice to have some some good news in the industry, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 7:37

It is indeed. And I was when you say old old Prop tech founders, that really makes me old. So remember them turning up at the first whereas the Sunday Times awards do and and meeting them then. So if you're making saying they're older, now what does that make us? But uh it is great to see, and and they've and I think they got some money off off the university to start the business, and then and so it came out of there and they were back through that. I don't know if maybe them getting the degrees now means that they actually didn't finish the degrees originally, and whether that's because they started the business or had too good a time. But uh yeah, it's great to see those guys go for strength and strength. It's very rare, isn't it, you get people who are generally really nice guys and seeing the the companies being successful, and so it is it's great to see that kick on.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

100%. And yeah, the the the impact they've had upon the northeast in terms of you know the the economy, employment, things like that. That business has really, really been strong. So no, fair play to them, and yeah, yeah, like you all remember them kind of just um very small, um, you know, just kind of been starting out and stuff like that, and they've done an exceptional job. So well done, them. Good to uh good to focus on some really, really good news. All right, um, we are now going to move into our AI and tech news. Okay, so um it's model speculation time. Um, because we think that um Google Gemini is going to drop, possibly while we're recording this, um Gemini 3.5 Pro. And uh yes, apparently full rebuild. Um, this sounds and smells a little bit like a panic move from um from Google. They're not doing Gemini 4, they're doing 3.5. It feels like they're kind of like maybe if we can just get this out the door, then people will stop asking when when the next one's coming. Yeah, Matt, what's uh what's what's what have you heard on the old jungle drums?

SPEAKER_00 9:10

Oh we I think we touched on this last week. So if it does drop today, we it really are turning into soothsayers, but it's uh a case of yes, there's a lot of pressure on them, and it does feel like well, last year was the year of Google, but both both Anthropic with Claude and and ChatGPT from OpenAI have absolutely raced ahead this year. But um the I think the biggest sort of insight or big piece of interest is just the senior staff that are leaving as well, right? And I know we talk about these models almost queued up at the rank waiting to go, and you know it might be that we get Chat GPT 6 coming out soon and what what's the next iteration? But by the sound of things, they've had to completely rebuild Gemini. And they did a brilliant year in 2025 and sort of churned through a lot, and they are still issuing things, just not in the in the big uh way that we were used to last year. So I'd I wouldn't be surprised and wouldn't uh discount them, especially given you know received lights at Microsoft now releasing models that are uh decent.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

Uh so um it'll be interesting and yeah Yeah, we said it last week, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:10

And Kimmy Kimmy that came out this week as well, which we've got later on in the show notes. So yes, it's it's it it'll be wait and see and uh just make it more more interesting. At the at the conference yesterday, someone said, What what do I go for, ChatGPT or Claude? And I said, which one are using the moment? And the comments went neither. Okay. Uh and so it's like, well, that's easier to choose between two. If suddenly like Gemini's back punching its way, it's like, okay, like you then start working out what the use cases are, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:37

Yeah, exactly. Like you are, it has been astonishing that that Google has allowed their lead to to slip quite so far. You know, you expected some basically when um when Claude came back so strongly at the beginning of the year, you were thinking Gemini was going to swing back at least kind of like the end of Q1, early Q2. Um it is now Q3, and this we still haven't seen it. And yeah, like you say, they've had to completely rebuild it, basically. You know, so that is that they they scrapped the previous version because it just wasn't good enough. Um so clearly something is um is a little bit awry, but you know, again, maybe they've just got this new you know, a new platform to to build from and seeing what the the benchmarks kind of turn up with uh with 3.5 pro and then kind of kick on from there. But uh but yes, I'd be surprised if it was as good as Fable 5 Claude um or 5.6 um chat GPT. But uh but yes, I'm looking forward to uh getting our hands on it anyway, and particularly around the sort of imaging stuff and video stuff if they've if they've managed to kind of push those through as well. But we shall see uh next week we will be able to talk about it uh in detail. All right, there's been some more shenanigans, let's call it, um, between OpenAI and one of the other bigger tech companies. In this case, it's OpenAI and Apple. Now, I don't think you really generally want to get on the wrong side of Apple, particularly as they've got such a big massive distribution network. But it was interesting that you know a few weeks ago, possibly a month and a bit ago, OpenAI was was grumbling that ChatGPT was not being distributed the way that um it wanted to with uh through through the iPhone, and then basically kind of saying, you know, this wasn't the deal, blah blah blah. But it looks like actually Apple's kind of been building this lawsuit against OpenAI. Um so the kind of story is that OpenAI's um the head of product used to work at Apple with Johnny Ive, and OpenAI took over Johnny Ive's company I.O. And just to recap, Johnny Ives, the guy who designed the iPhone, now working with OpenAI to design the next um device. And that's going to be the AI device for the masses, it is hoped by them. Um but uh but yes, also when when IO came across to ChatGPT, it brought with it um one of their uh another of their um kind of co-founders or Johnny Ive's kind of colleagues, and that uh person has basically been uh allegedly, big allegedly, um been involved in um basically trying to get people from Apple, interviewing people from Apple, trying to get them to bring kind of bits of kit in from Apple. Um and this person, Tang Tan, has has basically also managed to access the Apple systems and has been able to get into it and has been sending WhatsApp messages lollying about it that have apparently been uh discovered by by Apple as well. So all sounds a bit messy, um, just in front of OpenAI's assumed IPO as well, not going to be very smart and probably is gonna have to delay whatever hardware they're they're pushing out anyway, Matt, right?

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Yeah, and it's it's it just gets a reminder that even the big companies have have challenges, right, from a security point of view, because there's there's examples in it as well of people who've left, joined OpenAI, and then still had access to their Apple emails and and network drives and been able to revisit those and share them with their new teams, which obviously they shouldn't be doing, but but simply the fact that you know we when we're at Repeat, people would say if I mark them as inactive, will that person still have access? Just make sure that you've got it all linked up and it's like that onboarding offboarding journey that we all worry about and make sure that you know things are handed back over, even even the top companies there aren't necessarily getting it right. So it's it's maybe not refreshing is the right word, but you know, you wouldn't beat ourselves up that maybe we haven't got everything absolutely locked down, even the biggest and the best don't do it, and then it comes out in these lawsuits. But the the idea of saying to someone, look, bring this along as part of your interview process and let's have a show and tell about what you're you're currently working on. It's like yes, uh you know, and uh as you say, literally WhatsApp in lol images, which I assume is the sp laughing face on its side, is it just uh yeah, it feels all school ground stuff again, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_01 14:29

It really, really does. And yeah, the fed I think Apple blamed it on a bug, was the reason why this guy could access his uh his old system. It's like, was it really a bug? Or did somebody not do their job?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Are they saying that they're using Gmail instead of Apple Mail or something? Allegedly.

SPEAKER_01 14:45

So yeah, so that's um so so yeah, that one obviously is gonna run and run, and but yeah, it really does kind of spike um OpenAI's guns in terms of um the IPO I would suggest, and possibly you know, we'll will deflate whatever um uh whatever value it's able to uh to get itself to, which you know that there's so much mess in the IPO kind of market with anthropics still under the pressure from the the US government. It's gonna be interesting to see when those do eventually go, um if at all, in the next month or so. Also uh in the news for some nefarious activity, um we have Grok. Now that's not perhaps unusual, but this is the first time it's been SpaceX AI's Grok rather than just XAI's Groc. So SpaceX AI, um obviously now publicly listed, um, and it has had to admit that Grok retained developer data. So this is slightly, yeah, slightly um in the weeds in terms of of what that kind of all means. Um but Matt, um what has been alleged and what has been kind of um found and what has been admitted?

SPEAKER_00 15:41

Well, so it's so to stick this in context, so it's grok developer, which is similar to Claude Code or uh Codex in terms of it's it's very much a CLI and a genetic coding platform. It's very early on, actually, and it's not cursor who they've acquired for 60 billion more recently. So it's it's Groc Developer, and and within that there's privacy settings, so you can say um basically keep your code private, only upload the snippets that you need to when you're you're working through, and this is talking to the the AI agent. And actually, what's been found is that Grok Developer completely ignores that, and regardless of what you ask it to do, in the background is uploading your entire code repos. So to take a step back, a repo is is essentially a folder of code and it's uploading that all in the background to to Grok. And that was allegedly, and it was you know, we've seen this thing happen. Um Elon Musk's come out and said, right, we're gonna just purge all the data that's whether it's it's right or wrong, is it we're just gonna get rid of everything, which is almost a sort of acceptance in itself that he was doing that. And I think the most amazing thing is that if this was happening within OpenAI or within Claude Anthropic, well, maybe not so much anthropic now that Musk is a bit of a fanboy of them given all the investment he's getting, he'd be all over it and Twitter would be a wash, wouldn't it, or X would be a wash with it, whereas it's almost a yep, fine bug, delete it, crack on, nothing, nothing to see here. It's actually quite serious, right? If you've got something telling you privacy's on. Like I'd the estate agents of tomorrow thing yesterday, someone said, Oh well, if you're using ChatGPT, all your all your memory and all your queries and all your data is getting uploaded and shared. So it's because are you using the free version? Because if you're not using the free version, there's a setting in the background to change that. And it's the same with Claude, right? So it's still this you know, all your secrets are leaking, and then something like this comes out, which just compounds that point, which is a okay, there is a setting, but groc developer is ignoring it and your your information is being uploaded regardless.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

Yeah, and and it is a worry, and you know, I don't again to be to loads of agents, you know, that that is a really important thing is pay your 20 quid because that then allows you to actually have that security, um, but that your data's not going to go anywhere else and your team's data isn't gonna go anywhere else. And but yeah, just in terms of the kind of and you've got um Elon Musk throwing rocks at Sam Altman um this week about the Apple case, um and Altman firing back saying that um basically you can tell that Chat GPT is going high on the benchmarks because Elon's starting to obsess about him again, obsess about Altman again. And then this comes out and Elon's had to kind of like you know uh wear the old hair shirt and say, Oh, I can't believe it, blah, blah, blah. And but uh, but yeah, it's just um yeah, it's I I think what it speaks to is in terms of security and in terms of you know being able to trust. Um it's worth being careful with some of the the more personal data that you are uploading, particularly regarding your customers and so on. Um where you can anonymize stuff, I would, and but uh, but yes, you know, in the end, things like this will turn up but will be illuminated as being wrong, and we will find out, and they will then say that they'll purge you and and and have to do something like that. But uh yeah, it's um it's not um not pretty and doesn't sit well with um with yeah, Elon's um uh self self-opinion as being kind of a almost like a full on coder, doesn't it? Um he likes to present. So yes, he's obviously um under a lot of pressure from from a lot of his customers as a result. Uh all right, let's have a look at Europe's Andoril. So we don't often talk about Europe and uh some of the tech from from here, but uh sorry, Europe's um Anderil rival Helsing. So Helsing is um uh is a defence contract registered defence technology company. Uh Andoril is the um is the US version created by a guy called Palmer Lucky. Helsing has raised 1.8 billion at an 18 billion uh valuation, is um which is pretty good, pretty positive in terms of um how um you know how how how all these defence kind of contractors are starting to to kind of um push out. I think there's been a lot of global, obviously a lot of global conflicts recently. There's been a lot of um concern about um too much reliance on the states and the technology over there. So yeah, this feels like um a significant push from this side of the Atlantic for some kind of self-owned technology, doesn't it, Matt?

SPEAKER_00 19:51

It does, but at the same time, I know when not as I first saw this store, I thought there'd be a lot of European entities jumping in and funding it. And and I'm sure there are, but the big headline investors are actually JP Morgan Chase and also Lightspeed Venture Partners, who are one of the big bless you, sponsors at Sastra as well, over in America. So it's not purely coming from the Europe in terms of this investment, is it? But um, yeah, having European-based AI is something that we've talked about before because there's quite a lot of um of the people, individuals and businesses that are now driving things in America have actually started out, I think, UK, haven't they, including from stuff as Sullivan?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so it does feel like there's there's that eastern movement, as you say, it's not necessarily backed by funds over here, but um, but clearly some of the the funds over there see um see opportunity. And alongside that, Intel is investing 5 billion euros in uh manufacturing in Europe as well, so manufacturing its chips and its technology too. So, yes, it does seem like there's been some um finally, probably there's been some movement in Europe with regard to the tech side of things as well. Alright, that's our AI and tech news for this week. Um, we are going to dive into our occasional series Weird AI of the week. Matt, this is one of yours. Uh what have we got here? It looks very small and cute.

SPEAKER_00 21:05

So I'm jumping slightly back to May when I was in California for this Astra conference twice a week in this week. And uh one of the things I talked about do getting my uh my Waymo and uh my Waymo and uh the whole driverless cars, and and I won't bang on about that specific journey again. But uh what I didn't maybe pick up on and mention is sort of at one stage Waymo's um which are the the driver's cars that are based on the Jaguar or Jaguars, at some stages they were every two or three cars as you drive around the centre of California. But what also happened was there's these other I'm gonna say weird electric cars that were also driverless that were going around, and some of them looked like Pokemobiles and they'd fly through the middle of town, and they were just they were clearly designed for driverless from the start, whereas the Waymozala Jaguars that are just sort of customized for the driver's world. And the chip, which is the story here, is the first car. that I've actually seen publicly announced that is AI first. And so it looks like a well it is basically an electronic golf cart style car that's been uh been built so that it can be roadworthy as well. Um it's got a cheery LED smile on the front of it as part of the grill. But is the idea is that you could utilize it to to drive yourself to say the football and then if you're running late to the kickoff you can get it to then go off and park itself. And so actually moving towards maybe what the the future is as these things go from being designed first and foremost to driveless and AI first and then becoming cars rather than cars going in the other direction. So a little bit weird worth having a look at at chip and seeing the videos that play around that as this is one of the our weird AIs that we we sometimes do.

SPEAKER_01 22:45

Yeah it's nice as yeah it's $15,000 four seat um soft top roof and it's very uh yeah very very cute. Alright um next up finally we're going to uh dip into our tool of the week all right so this is uh Kimi K3 so um if we roll back um uh to probably about six eight months ago something like that Kimi K2 came out it's one of the Chinese models it is um uh one of the open source models from Moonshot AI which is backed by Alibaba over in uh over in China and yes when it Kimi K2 came out it was it was blew people's minds in terms of what it was what was possible how it had actually been able to be trained and so on and uh and Kik is amazing right so it's it's frontier uh class large language model buckets of um uh impressive stats coming from the the benchmarks and so on so um yeah Matt um this um is something that uh yeah just shows goes to show what is happening in the kind of open source world which is going to feed through into what the the frontier labs are going to have to do for the closed models as well.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Exactly that especially in the world that we're we're living in at the moment where we now have this restriction coming out of America on the new frontier model result releases and and we didn't touch on it earlier but whether or not Google 3.5 Gemini 3.5 has to go through that same system of approval with the American government before it gets released like the scene with Fable 5 and GPT 5.6 but seeing Kimmy come out firstly from uh obviously China and then secondly from the fact that it's open waste and and therefore sorry open source it'd be it's it is a big kick for the Western labs and and obviously with the token costs going through I know we sort of alluded to it last week that we expected Fable 5 not to be restricted and and we got the extension till I think is it till Sunday we've got an extension and so again soothsayers you know we should do a podcast on this sort of stuff and whether these strong model labs I know well I've got friends who work for American banks in the the product departments and and you know they're keeping an eye on Kimmy so to see see what these are doing. And Microsoft we touched on a few weeks ago they're um starting to use the Chinese models as well aren't they? So it's yeah you know it's if the if the big enterprise businesses are looking at them then you know the rest of us should probably do the same.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

Yeah it's interesting as well that there have been sort of whisperings or memories started to come out that that maybe the Chinese government might um follow suit in terms of restricting the the um distribution of some of their open source models out into to the West so actually stopping um us from having access to these free resources as well. So that's uh that's interesting to see how that one's going to play out as well. Yeah Kimik2 kind of following hard on the heels of some other um very um accomplished models from uh from China um and yeah looking like it's kind of third on the benchmarks just behind Fable 5 and um and uh Chat GPT 5.6 at the moment. Alright that is all we've got time for this Friday morning and thank you very much indeed for listening in we will be back again next week with plenty more property and AI news and maybe even Gemini 3.5 Pro who knows Matt have a great weekend and uh yeah we will catch up with each other next week I'm sure you too Matt