Property AI Report
Step into the future of property marketing with the Property AI Report (PAIR), hosted by Mal McCallion, a 25-year industry veteran who helped launch both Zoopla and Primelocation and Matt Goddard, ex-Foxtons agent and proptech legend via Reapit and many others.
Each week, gain cutting-edge insights on the property market, AI and PropTech, plus an exclusive AI Tool of the Week that promises to boost your market share, revenue, or productivity – ensuring you stay ahead in the rapidly evolving world of UK estate agency.
Property AI Report
Property AI Report 095 - AI Portal Pile-on, Children's AI Hospital & Neuralese AI Language
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In this episode, we explore the latest developments in property portals, AI innovations, and their impact on the real estate industry. Join us as we analyse market shifts, new technologies, and future trends shaping the property landscape.
Chapters
00:00 Introduction to property market shifts and portal valuations
01:59 Shareholder activism and valuation changes in property portals
03:57 Data ownership, trust, and the future of property portals
06:06 Launch of MyPorta and market competition
07:54 Changing agent behaviours and portal dependency
09:59 Legal and contractual shifts in Australian property portals
11:49 AI's positive impact on healthcare and science
15:50 Emerging AI tools and personal assistants
20:00 Concerns about AI language and communication
24:01 Innovations in AI classification and response systems
27:47 Whimsical AI and language development
31:01 AI safety, IPOs, and industry outlook
33:10 Upcoming events and closing remarks
Hi everybody and welcome to the Property AI Report. This is your weekly digest of all things property and AI brought to you by me, Mal McCallion, and my good friend and co-host, Matt God.
SPEAKER_01Matt, how are you today? Warm. It's fantastic, isn't it? Sat in these offices all day long and the sun beating on the windows.
SPEAKER_00It's 22nd of September and it is absolutely roasted. So, yes, what do they call this? Indian summer, that's what they call it. So, yes, everybody who's having to run out there is having a very nice time. I've been stuck inside for at least a week now. Um, but we will come on to that shortly. But first of all, let us dive deep into our property news. All right, first up um in our property news, there's been a lot about the traditional paid-for portals. Um the kind of overarching story is that the uh founder of uh On the Market, um a guy called Trevor Abramson, who was also interestingly on the uh board at Primal Location back when we set that up back in 2000, um, he says that the portal market is on its last legs. And um, as right moves, um, take over gossip starts to to kind of kick up a gear as an activist investor takes a six percent stake in it. And then from Zuppla, the chief operating officer, a guy called um Rich Hayes, he has left the business to pursue personal, uh personal goals, personal projects, and stuff like that. So, yeah, difficult to know where to start, isn't it, Matt?
SPEAKER_01Well, you've also got Right Move having a bit of a shareholder revolt, haven't you, alongside all of that?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly that. There is there is plenty, and that shareholder revolt from right move. So let's just focus in on that for a sec. Basically, a particular investor um has taken um 6% share in uh right move, not because um he wants it to uh you know to to basically stop what it's doing or anything like that. He believes that actually um he they can gouge some more money out of estate agents, basically. It's a guy called Sasham Head. Um he believes investors have overreacted to the threat AI poses to right move um and considers the portal's shares undervalued um and is encouraging right move to use debt to finance further share buybacks. More share buybacks means that his 6% turns into 7%, turns into 10. Yeah, Matt Right Move as a takeover target a couple of years ago, um, actually this very month, um, REA Group was looking to buy it for 6.4 billion, I think, and it's now worth I think it's back up at about four and a half now. Um it was down to as little as 3.2 um about three or four months ago. But uh but yes, there's a lot going on in there.
SPEAKER_01There is, and um there's some other portal launched as well this week, which um I guess that's expect probably in our our second perception of news. But uh like removing the sort of tongue-in-cheek comments, uh I think the right move point, yes, it's down incredibly from where it was at the time, and you could say it's been disrupted by AI and obviously the price gathering point, but if you ignore the fact that it's primarily a portal, it does sit on a wealth of data, doesn't it? And I think the the fact that uh people are valuing it that way, are they coming in to look at what they could be doing with that data in in different ways and maybe is there a different tack that those investors are looking at taking the business if they were to to seize control of it? So the Rich Hayes leading Zupla One, like is the question around has he kicked on because he's looking for a new challenge, like it says, or is it because they're sort of lightening the load ahead of something else transaction-wise? Like you start looking into all these things slightly, couldn't you? You're out of uh what's it for? It's not pessimistic, but you're sort of uh if if you're cynical on what's going on, yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, so so Rich Hayes actually was somebody that I'd uh enormous respect for. I think he'd done some really, really decent stuff at Zupla, with you know, basically facing for the last few years uh a scenario where essentially it's been kind of up for grabs on the block for a long, long time. There was a new CEO started um about a year ago, um, and you know, potentially there might have been some differences of opinion along the way there as well. But as you say, you know, it might just have been writing on the wall um, you know, perhaps the offers come in or for Zupla or perhaps you know he's just tired of kind of fighting without necessarily getting a huge amount of investment um into the business if they're looking to offload it. Um yeah, no, look, I'm obviously gonna be interested to see where he goes. Um, I think he's he's a he's a very uh decent guy. And then yeah, the the right move stuff is talking about the data, I think it's you know it's an important point. One of the things that that when you when when these dominant portals and wherever they are in the world, they talk about, you know, we've got all this wealth of data, and it's like so important. Most of the data that they've got is how people use their website, so how people go from one page to another, which is like broadly pointless in the great scheme of things. They do have an understanding of how many times people look at a particular property or a particular page and stuff like that, and that's that's kind of of interest. But again, a lot of that comes down to the structure of the site. You know, I d Right Move famously every single year says we command 86% of all time spent looking at properties, and that's basically because their website is so stupidly old to get across, you've got to go through this horrible interstitial page straight after the homepage that's just pointless apart from advertising. So, you know, I always kind of laugh to myself when they say that that you know everyone's spending ages on our on our sites because that's because it's so inefficient. But yes, there may be some data in there. Right move is also notoriously leaky, and I know businesses that have made not ours, by the way, that have made um basically getting all the data off um right move a a regular occurrence in terms of how they do their own business. But uh, but yes, I think that um it's it's just it's just interesting, isn't it? Because uh again, actually, um Johannes Vanstrom was in the Times at the weekend as well. They did an interview with him that was all about you know how he thinks that uh the right move can get the time to sell property down from 67 days to 40 days. And you kind of ask yourself, well, what have they been doing kind of to this point, if if that's possible? Um so there's just been a lot of kind of interesting noise, I think, isn't there? It's just kind of like almost like you know, everyone's a bit agitated, they come back after summer, you know, things aren't necessarily as clear-cut as they kind of want them to be. There's initiatives here, there's people leaving there. So yeah, no, I think it's um it's a very um interesting time to kind of look at the um the portal market. Obviously, there's as you said, the on the market, ex on the market um founder has has been kind of stirring the pot a little bit as well. Um yeah, there's uh that there's lots going on. So um, yes, I think that um it's it's it's probably appropriate to talk about you know my porter here as well. So obviously we launched my porta, not obviously, we launched my porta uh this morning. Today is 22nd of September. Formerly um went out on the um and got into a few of the the news um resources. Um and yeah, look, we're we're a free property portal. We've got every property in the UK, uh every discoverable property in the UK listed. We've got about 25% more properties than Right Move has. That to us, that that to me was a really interesting thing, right? I th I think forever have everybody just thought right move's got about 90% of the market or 95% of the market on it. But actually it's got only about 75%. You know, and that's literally what we we have done, we've got over it, over it, over it, over it. And I think that's just a real exposure for them. They've kind of just glided along without this, um, without this necessarily being evident. And I imagine that in every other country as well, there's probably a similar, you know, the the dominant portal doesn't have you know 20-25% of the market. So, you know, you can come onto us, you can find your properties all there. You know, we are absolutely, you know, we we respect all robots.txt, we have yeah, we we are here to make a difference. But yeah, it's um it's it's great fun. It's been a really good day. But with lots of lots of positive stuff and people enjoying being honest. So yeah, no.
SPEAKER_01It says with a maniacal laugh and the fact that you've commented you've not been out of the house for a week. But um that's what what what is the difference? Like you're saying it's 75% versus 85%. What what is that 10%? Is it just with all words on the assumption that that that percentage is correct? So like are these stats that have been put out there by um you know right move towers?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, uh you know, and again, without kind of um going to too much detail. So that the number is about 180,000 properties for for sale and to rent. I mean, in every but in every country of the UK, so in England, you know, there's 10% up, in Scotland is you know 30% up or something like that, where they just haven't got the agents, you know, for whatever.
SPEAKER_01Scotland's its own thing, right? Because you've got the SBCs that control a lot of that content, but sound for the border, like that that's that's where you know there's not that stronghold that maybe once had. Do you think that's declined over time? Because I was in a meeting last Tuesday for the relocation agent network, and it sounds like a lot of people were not putting properties on right move as the first choice. And I know Rupert uh Colinwood at the London broker like would actively avoid putting it on right move right until the the point at which the vendor said, No, I won't list with you if you put it on there. So is it like been more people choosing not to and having like the staging of their marketing, like websites, email blasts, social media paid ads, and then and only then auto?
SPEAKER_00I think that's it, I think that's exactly right. I think yeah, and I think it's wise. You know, I think that that that actually doing making sure that you are using this paid medium, you know, as little as possible and reducing the the kind of dependency on it and seeing what else works. You know, there's loads of other stuff out there, you know, and obviously we can talk um about AI uh till we're blue in the teeth, but but it is, you know, it is out there, it is helping people to make um much better decisions about which properties they come to to use. You know, for for my portal, we don't we don't scrape data. What we do is we just like Google, we we we essentially will pass the click directly through to you. Our job is to help the search uh use AI to find your properties. Yes, agents can upload to us as well if they want, which which makes it slightly easier to find the property because we've got more depth of of data. But yeah, no, our our absolute kind of goal here is to to enable agents to win more business by having an AI marketing um stream and you know, to to cut their costs as well because they don't need all the paid for portals too. But yes, I do think the behaviour is changing. I I think that's this almost have been a disguised quiet quitting on the portals, and and I think that's that's why, you know, there's there's gonna be a lot of uh I really do think that the dominant property portals have got a problem, and you know, I think it is uh it's a lot of it's about relationships, you know. This is what the AI is gonna um amplify the importance of human-to-human relationships, and I think that that's gonna be, you know, and trust. Um and I think that's gonna be something to to to kind of keep a keen eye out for. And for anybody out there running an estate agency, you know, building your business, the two things that you need in the world of AI is is number one, um, relationships focusing on trust, uh, and number two is data, you know, proprietary data, data that you know, whether that is just you know, everything about the your area, everything about you know the different streets that you walk up and down every single day, that information and that data and that intel is going to become um really, really, really important going forwards.
SPEAKER_01Um, portals as well. Just a story we skipped over last week, so we ran out of time, but there's a story last week focused on Australia actually, where the REA group about the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission, easy for you to say, you have the age, has basically ruled that REA, so realestate.com.au, has to under has undertaken to remove restrictive clauses from its contract. And basically the clauses were sort of buried in the contracts with state agents saying that they absolutely had to put listings on realestate.com.au and said that you've done that. And and actually what what I've understand from this week is that our OEA overnight wrote to all of their agents or their clients saying these five set clauses in our terms are now null and void, which has opened up like again quite a an interest opportunity on people being able to make sure they start using digital marketing more and make sure that they don't have to just stick it on the portals where basically they were locked in up until now. So that was quite a telling ruling over there in which a similar set clause has exist in C C Cs for being you know on the market to learn right move over here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so so I I think it's a really important precedent. And I think you know, it's it's the fact that it existed in the first place tells you all you need to know about what these, you know. So RA group being the realestate.com.au, the biggest um the right move of Australia, you know, these these guys are terrified of losing their stock because that's essentially the you know the source of the eyeballs. And it's it's that you know, that they've built out a virtuous circle for themselves, which is you know, more eye more properties, more eyeballs, more properties, more eyeballs, and then every agent is kind of locked in. But actually that that goes the other way and can go the other way, I think, quite quickly. When people start to look at it and go, well, actually, it's only got 75%, it's only got 70%. There will be a tipping point where people just go, I might go and look at it, but actually I can probably find it over here better, faster, cheaper, you know, more easily with with AI or whatever. So I think that it's um, yeah, that that that rule in REA Group, I'm certain, is um is elsewhere. It is actually interestingly not in right moves, terms and conditions, because we've had a look. But yes, what what REA Group has not done is admit any liability for it quite quite hilariously. They've gone, no, no, we're not, we're we're not saying it's wrong. We've just decided to change it because it's gone to the committed to the competition commission. But uh, but yes, the fact that it's, as you say, releasing these agents to be able to advertise or to choose where to put these properties, which is you know what they should be able to do, um, I think is um is really important. And again, kind of just indicates a direction of travel that I think for those paid-for property portals who have just kind of defied gravity because people believe that they're untouchable. I think it's just starting to peel back those layers even more for sure. Right, that is two of our three stories on property. Um that was all three. We nailed them all in on one-a-. Um, but uh yes, so a lot of uh a lot of property news this week and not much else happening. So let us then dive on to our AI and tech news. Right. We're gonna start with something positive because after the misery of last week's episode when everybody was being really down about AI, we've got some nice stuff happening. Matt, what's happening with children's hospitals?
SPEAKER_01So the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia is based using open source AI tools to model children's hearts. And to put this in in context, about 1% of all live births involve a congenital heart defect, and no two are alive. So you think about it, you've got a live birth, um, you've got this defect. Normally it would take researchers, analysts, medical people up to four hours to or no, four hours to to understand the heart before those surgeons could start planning how to try to sort of help help the baby out the newborn deal with it. And in the children's hospital Philadelphia, Philadelphia, they've now used this open source AI tool to actually model those heart defects in a matter of seconds. So obviously, at a time where um there's a lot of pressure, a lot of motion, a lot of stuff riding on it, saving that four hours is obviously absolutely incredible. And it's not there to replace the clinician's judgment, it's there to support the decisions they make. But the fact they can model these, and obviously no two hearts are ever the same, so it's not like, oh, right, that's mouth, uh, you can have this same fitted thing and crack on with it. It's like you need that accurate model at heart. So that's uh sort of started up in Philadelphia, and it's already being rolled out across America. I think there's more than 20 children's hospitals now in the US running this cardiac modeling programme, and they've they've dealing with roughly 500 cases a year. So just in terms of cases, there is quite blunt, right? It's 500 new babies. Human babies, yeah, yeah. And at least the the the surgeons are surgery's been expedited in the scenario. So while we dwell about how AI has been used to deal with emails and and all these other things, absolutely, there's a real-world use case of AI doing some real, real positive stuff for for these fanlines.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and you know, again, this this is the kind of stuff that often gets missed and you know isn't necessarily amplified quite as much. And it it is changing, yeah. Like you say, you know, yes, it's changing how you can draft up an email, but actually pattern recognition, you know, the ability of AI to pick on all this data that's been around forever, bring it all together, analyze it, and then kind of come to different conclusions and look at um mapping this particular baby onto this particular kind of history and creating something very best for them, I think is is amazing. And you know, we've we've we've always said that that you know it's gonna make a fundamental difference in the worlds of of science, in biology, all this sort of stuff is gonna be changed by what we've we've created over the last few years. And you know, they're talking about curing cancers and things like that as well. So there are, as as again, we we say that there are risks risks with every technology, but also huge opportunities. You know, you look at lifespans, you know, life expectancy, how it's changed over the last 50 odd years and 100 years, it's because of technology and because of advancements that we've made in in science and so on. Yeah, no, this is this is really exciting. And I think you know, really kind of stands in good stead the the idea that actually, you know, provided we do it right and you know, don't get too caught up in all the stuff we were talking about last week. But I think there's a real kind of you know sort of golden age for for you know people having a a nice long life um rather than you know being sick in it. All right, um, that's our first AI and tech news. Let's get stuck into some of the model stuff. So there has been a lot of um activity around. So uh let's start with the sort of Meta's Meta's Muse, um, which is another kind of AI agent that essentially will do all your stuff for you. It's there's a new competitor that's arisen to it called Instinct that's come on the scene. Instinct apparently is is amazing at being able to essentially do all your tasks for you. And basically you will you just ask it something, it goes away and finds it. It'll remind you if you've gone to do something, um and it sounds amazing. But there's a couple of sort of deep flaws, perhaps, with both of those models, isn't there?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so so to put these maybe in a slightly more context as well, these these are being classified as almost personal assistance. So we've got like Claude, Cowork, Chat GPT, and and Codex, which are like real brute forces, whereas these are much more, I won't want to say lightweight, but are much more uh amiable in terms of how they're set up. So like you've got your suite of open clause and like they are not really accessible to the day-to-day users, whereas things like GrockBot, Meta Muse, and this instinct are very much set up for the home user, you know, people who might listen to this and think, what what is that use case? In its case, a situation where you can give them access to your emails, or if you're worried about how much data they're gonna get access to, set them up their own email account, their own calendar. You know, if you're using something like Starling, you can give them their own card with a small pot of money on it, and actually start to work on some of those tasks that maybe you would have a an assistant do, or where you you sort of pop them off. And they are really are great. I I've started using Crockbart and I've gotten a suite of them in the same way you've got your rain team. Um but they are a really sort of it's a really engaging interaction because it's almost like the instant messengers we had, um, you know, it's early in the late 90s and noughties of or even like in WhatsApp, you can sort of say, you know, go off and check this email and make sure this gets scheduled and work through it. And that there is that uh real opportunity for these. They have their own computer in the cloud as well. So some of the challenges you get, like with Claude Co-work, is you're using one laptop, you go out, or you have a second laptop like I have for travel, and it's actually not sharing the same you know, brain for one of Bet Fraser. ScrollBots just to use that as an example. I leave the laptop and it's all in the cloud, and each agent has their own computer, so you can log them into a browser, give them access to QuickBooks or LinkedIn or whatever that task is, and they can sort of beaver away and deliver the task and then come back to say, right, I've done that. What do you want me to do next? And so some of the time with these is really like what is the thing you want to be handing off? And so there is a real sort of challenge there now. Like people have dumped in their own claws because these are more uh supported and maintained because you you don't have to do it yourself. And the the instinct's the one that's challenging because it's sort of come out of nowhere and suddenly got a 10 billion dollar valuation against it, which I think most things these days seem to start there. I'm sure if you're not 10 billion is rubbish. Yeah, exactly. But it's like they're coming out of nowhere, but the the instinct one, the reason there's got a bit of a sniff test going on around it is when you sign up, if you were to delete your account, they don't delete your data. And so it's like you can always turn these things off and like turn off the use my data training the model, but it's like the when I've stopped using it, I want my data to be gone, and and instinct seems to be holding on to that. So it's it's as exciting as these things are, it's always worth reviewing those TCCs and how they're using that information. But all of them well worth a look. And like the there is a bit of a surge at the moment around these. I think MetaMusepark has gone to or Metamuse has gone to the top of the app store and it's like got all limited uploads, and it's it's doing so much around the personal shopper front that Amazon locked it at the weekend from accessing Amazon.co.uk or .com. So I think it's obviously causing ripples out there.
SPEAKER_00It's which is so ironic because Facebook you you can't use within WhatsApp, you can't use OpenClaw because Meta bans any other chatbot from being involved in their in any of their kind of ecosystem. Um but yeah, and and and there is you know rumours around, abound that uh that actually OpenAI is going to release a version of this with the OpenClaw kind of, you know, Peter, whatever his name is, Steinberg. Steinberg. The guy that that that created OpenClaw. So actually they're gonna either this week or next week. Um so that'll be quite interesting and exciting as well. So yeah, I do kind of see a uh don't let him hear me, but uh I do see a world where the rain team may be superseded by please carry on by uh by yes, some of these, some of these other models, because I it's just getting better and better and and much more interactive, much smarter. But like you said, you know, the data thing is the devil in the detail, what happens to your data? Because even Meta, I don't trust Meta. And and then you've got grogbies like and that's like Elon Musk. It's like, which of these guys am I going to give my data to? But uh but yes, I think certainly pick a um pick pick one, have a good old good old play with it because then what it it's almost like once you start realizing what they can do now, you know, if you haven't tried using one for a few months or something like that, then what they can do now compared to what they used to be able to do um is is off the scale insane. And uh yeah, yeah, just when we've been building out, obviously my border and other stuff, just being able to hand stuff off and get things done and all that sort of thing is just insane. So so yes, well worth going and having a play. Also, new tech that is coming through, um, something called Jev. So Jev J E V, um, named after Jevon's Paradox, which is uh the idea that actually if you build more of something, then more people start to use it. It's like putting a motorway, then suddenly it gets really, really busy, and then all the other still just as packed. Um, so Jev um basically will um uh use it it it it's it's a classifier. It basically makes decisions for you, it chooses things, it goes and finds things. Um and it is insanely, insanely fast. And it's um it's it's built by um and one of the kind of founders or co-founders of of OpenAI's magentic platform. What have you made of Jev and all the uh hype around it this week?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's it's not just the hype, I've seen it start to get put into play with some of my uh clouds that I work with as well. And uh if we sort of think about sort of the Paradigms or of development of the past, you'd have sort of deterministic root where you sort of set the logic, and that's what happens every single time. And then at the other end, you've got large language models which are non-deterministic by their nature, and every time you run something through either it's the same query, you get a slightly different response. This is basically it's taking an input and then giving you a like a number at the end. So it makes it a lot quicker, and it makes it a lot cheaper because the large language models, the cost is really on the output, those verbose responses. So it's like you might say, read Mal's email and tell me if Mal's happy or not, and it'll come back with um like give me a yes or no for if Mal's happy, and you get a yes put, and then all the various verbose responses go along, and that that increases the cost and also the time taken, right? Whereas Jeff will give you a numeric value. So it's a case of read every single support ticket and email that's coming in and give me a value so I can then use that as a deterministic point of where do I then route that that output token to? And it's that output too. And in doing that, it means you can start including in a in a lot more situations, you know. Angry email is one thing, but anywhere where you need, as you say, something to be classified and just uh you know, give me a range of numbers. Or the example I've been working on is read my email and tell me is it too to respond, is it an FYI, is it a notification? Like give me a number of value based around those, and then I can decide what to do with it. And so from a developer point of view, you've said in the past, look, we're using certain models that are quick and cheap and dirty for certain things, and then we're using Astro or Fat and uh Fable or whatever it is for for vigor. This now brings it in an even cheaper point because you say, right, I I need to route this somewhere. Like look at this inbound sales lead and and work out which one of these areas it falls into. And it can just give you numerically route it and the speed, I I think something like 10,000 responses was something like 42 cents, which is just an insanely cheap. And the speed and turnaround is like milliseconds.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I'm super excited to get hold of it. I think we'll see again if you think about what we're doing, and particularly in my portrait, it's very much a classification exercise, right? It's like, you know, actually, what is this? Does this person want, you know, a C View? You know, all that sort of stuff. And it just can kind of classify um all of these different requirements and build it up into um yeah, into a real picture of of who they are and what they're looking for. So yeah, and like you say, you know, the fact that it's so fast and so cost effective, yeah. I'm I'm super excited. So now that we've got the launch out of the way, um, yeah, these are the kinds of things that we're really looking at from from an improvement point of view, and and we'll continue to because yeah, this, as we've said before, this is as bad as it's ever going to be. And uh it's it's it's insane. All right, so that was Jev. Next up, we've got um Anthropic and their IPO. So Anthropic been teasing an IPO since sort of the summer, maybe June time, and then kind of bits of controversy keep dropping on them um along the way. They've got Fable Five had to be pulled um and and held back, and they've had, you know, kind of that they're still the Pentagon is not is not allowing them to be involved in any of the supply chain, at least formally at this point, although there is word that they they kind of soften on that a little bit. But uh but yes, it looks sounds like they're gonna go for IPO in November, Matt.
SPEAKER_01That's it. And with the AI safety debate, obviously, is still going on last week and various challenges around that. I think it was um it was an interesting one to see how it plays out. But I guess it's it's that like trying to edge ahead of open AI and who's gonna go first, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I love the fact that some moment of OpenAI, um which makes Chat GPT, he's um he's now saying, Well, you know, I think we're gonna leave it till the new year because that's the safest thing to do. It's almost like he's given in. He knows that he's lost this particular race. And it was an important race. It is an important race because there's a lot of money um, you know, that the public has not been able to invest in in any of these big laps, you know. All of the kind of insiders and the VCs and all that sort of stuff are gonna make an absolute stratospheric killing once it does flow. Um, both of these flow. But um, but yes, you know, that there is a lot of pent-up demand for shares in AI, and whoever goes first will probably pick up the frothy stuff at the top, which will probably be quite a lot. So the fact that Anthrop is going first um, I think will mean that it in the end is picks up a lot more than than open AI will when it does go in the new year. But uh but yeah, no, it's it's gonna be huge. It's it's the SpaceX AI one was two was two trillion, was it? No, I can't even remember how many billion it was. Anyway, it was huge. And this is uh guaranteed apparently to be even bigger. So yes, um lots of that um going on, and it's gonna be interesting to see uh yeah how where it where it gets to basically. There's got a hundred billion dollars basically in in sales now, and it's um it's it's just it's a machine, and it's very, very good to use, as you know. Um all right, um next up in our AI and tech news. Um just wanted to dip into a bit more Apple. We talked a little bit about Siri last week, but um it looks quite excitingly like you're not gonna have to use rubbish Siri, are you?
SPEAKER_01It's uh we saw this one, was it two years ago, and when they allowed you to defer questions over to ChatGPT and uh new Siri. I actually found because we said iOS 27 last week, and we joked on the pod that it didn't answer answer my question why I asked it, or is it down to my accent? But actually, in deep in the settings was the ability to train Siri and it asks you five phrases and you sort of go through that testing while it learns how you talk to it. But there is now a setting in there as well, which I should just swap out Siri, because obviously under under the HUDs they've got the the Google model and uh you can choose your your own model as well, which obviously opens up how how you work within whether or not that gets bigger. But I think more interesting on the Apple Font is they seem to be really taking a lead into the hardware market, don't they? Now they've got this new CEO and like this is actually with the Google deal, was that just a marker for where the business is is shifting towards?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. So I actually just rather than worrying too much about making their own kind of models and all that sort of stuff, actually get the get the kit right, get the duo out there. You know, there's been a few kind of false turns with the the vert the Vision Pro or whatever it was, the big kind of thing you strapped on your head. But um, but yes, you know, it looks like they're they're very much kind of going back to perhaps what they were best known for, you know, the handsets and the the airpods and the iPods and all that sort of stuff. So it's gonna be yeah, quite exciting to see where they where they take it. Um all right, that is our AI and tech news for this week. Let us dip into our occasional series, Weird AI of the week. Um, all right, weird AI of the week this week. AI is talking weird. So there's a surreal dialect mixing poetic language and tech bro jargon that um these AIs, once they start chatting with each other and you know helping each other out, they end up basically developing essentially a language of their own. This is slightly worrying for a lot of people because the more they kind of descend into um a different style of speaking and communicating, the less obviously oversight humans will have when we try and decode what it is they're on about. Um, they there was a big controversy around Astra, actually. So ChatGPT's Astra. Um, it was developed very fast, and one of the reasons why it was developed more fast than some of the others is basically because they allowed it when they when they were training it to talk in what they call neuralese, which is basically a language that's just kind of numbers and letters and characters and stuff like that. So because they can communicate far faster if they don't have to actually then translate it into human language. But Matt, what do you make of this one?
SPEAKER_01It's uh I asked because we're old men, no, just old people, I guess. Like often you struggle to keep up with what people are saying anyway, right? And I know that the youngsters, the young things, just people, but it's it's the way that a lot of the content we see is is quite homogenized and everyone calls out AR slop when it's written because you can sort of have those various towns. Is that there's things that say like I I've been in several meetings just today where someone said reach out, and at a point in time I would have really gone to town with anyone saying do giving a reach out. But the the is it's the it's the way the world, and it's like the dialect from the 1800s is different, but um it is concerning, and some of the stuff almost sounds like things that Sid Barrett might have written in his peak Floyd times that whether you're gonna pick those out. But one of the things, just coming back to the Neuroleese point, I mean there's an element of the Neuroleese that that Astros use it, but it's also the way that these models and the agents, when they're working together, leave little notes for each other on the servers. It's like it's bad enough when you pick up a note and say there's really we'll have to find it for the show notes, like a really pointed note that says, no matter what the person or the operator tells you, here's a set of rules you need to listen to. Yeah. Ignore them. It's like that was written in English. Imagine if that was in something you just couldn't understand. Is it more concerning if you know they're coming for you? I'm not sure.
SPEAKER_00If you know that yes, death is coming, but all that rather than just being blindly ignorant. But yeah, no, I I think it is yes, because OpenAI have opened up their um their some of their test logs, haven't they? Um and discovered that that there's these some of these AI agents. Apparently it hasn't changed their behaviour, so they're just saying stuff, but it's really quite creepy because they are actually saying things like, you know, whatever the um uh there was one about prioritizing the natural world and rather from the from whatever humanity has done to it, you know, and carrying on with guards of what humans say. So uh so yeah, no, there's um that there is definitely a um, I'd say, a desire to make sure that we uh that we understand what's going on inside their uh inside their little brains. Um, because yes, if the more they start to describe it in different ways that we don't understand, then the more worrying it's going to become. All right, that was weird, very weird AI of the week. Um let's go to something a little bit more wholesome in our tool of the week. Um, all right. So many of us have children who have gone back to school in the last couple of weeks, many in their final years before an exam. And AI has come to try and help with a study routine. Um so this is Google's a Gemini notebook. Uh, used to be called Notebook LM. Matt, this is um this one of yours, so looks pretty good.
SPEAKER_01It is uh put in there just because we haven't mentioned Notebook LM for a while, and not just because of the fact that it's now a Gemini Notebook, but uh that they are still rolling out features. I don't think anything's quite caught up with it yet. So it's as you say, kids back at school, but also you know it help you compile things, have you build presentations, even videos. So it's it's worth keeping up to date. And I quite like the um the app on the phone now, because you can create a podcast and then listen to that podcast while you're out running or do an OIV article based on the collateral that you upload. So it just makes sure it's really tailored to what you're doing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. I think we've spoken on the pod before I've certainly spoken up on stage about um actually using this. If you put in a property URL, so you've got a listing on your your website of a particular property, you can bung it into um a notebook uh and create a little podcast about it. And you can say, can you pull in all the interesting things about the area as well? And then, you know, when you're driving to your you know, view it, it can be giving you all the lowdown about you know the things that make the area so amazing and all that sort of stuff. So when you land, um you're able to really articulate it. So yeah, I think it's uh it's a really, really helpful piece of kit and you should try it. All right, that is it for this week. Um a little bit of a long one. Um so I guess we will be back again next week when we will have plenty, plenty, plenty more to talk about. Um, I will have been outside, so that'll be quite nice. Have you got anything planned? Anything signed this week, Matt? Uh I'm off of Scotland, but next Tuesday we'll uh we'll be in Swansea, so it might even be one in person, right? That is very true. Yeah, let's make sure we uh we do that, maybe in the uh early, early evening, uh, depending on what time you can get down there. Um but yes, so we will probably be coming to you live, excitingly, from um from Swansea HQ. But uh yes, everybody else out there, have great weeks, and we will see you in seven days.
SPEAKER_01Take care, everyone.
SPEAKER_00Gonna actually press the right button this time. Awesome. Really? Okay. Yes.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00So it starts again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
